Poland home of CIA torture camp?
The furore started when the Washington Post published an article which quoted US and foreign officials stating that the CIA has been hiding and interrogating terrorist suspects at Soviet-era camps in 'Eastern Europe'.Members of the European Parliament swiftly called for an EU investigation but a European Commission spokeswoman said it was an issue between the US and any member state concerned, while Javier Solana said simply that it had nothing to do with the EU.
Events unfolded further when Human Rights Watch claimed the Eastern European countries concerned could be Poland and Romania despite the worry that host countries could suffer terrorist reprisals.
So what exactly has been alleged?
The Washington Post article explains how such camps known as 'black sites' hold unknown numbers of terrorist suspects, for an unknown length of time who are interrogated using unknown techniques. It is not known how the suspects are identified and how decisions are taken about whether they should be detained. A lot is unknown, but the little information that can be gleaned is far from comforting.
The CIA can, and do, use their 'Enhanced Interrogation Techniques' in 'black sites' which they are not allowed to do at home, due to the inconvenience of having signed up to the UN Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.
These 'techniques' are basically torture techniques (unless you consider making a prisoner believe he or she is drowning a normal 'rule of law' procedure). These methods of extracting information are restricted by US law, and even by the military tribunals established at Guantanemo Bay.
This is worse than Guantanemo.
Detainees are held in complete isolation with no recognised legal rights. They are seen only by CIA agents, yes that's right, the CIA agents who have been given the power to torture them. This, it goes without saying, is a result of a Presidential order.
And now some officials are finding it hard to justify, even to themselves. Apparently, knowing that you have chosen to ignore the inconvenience of human rights and use barbaric torture methods on suspected terrorists at undisclosed locations, on the run from international obligations is 'just a horrible burden.' You don't say.
Update: Excellent commentary on CIA/gulag developments with the Beatroot.
posted by Becca @ 10:33 am
9 Comments:
Thank you for your support gumish. No, really.
I see you have had a visit from our new mate, Mr Gumish.
You know, the choice of nom de plume (how to spell that?) can be revealing. Gumish was a Polish cartoon character. A teddy bear. And then, in the early 1990's, a man (in Krakow?) started calling the police and saying that he had planted bombs in public places. The hoaxes went on for ages. The guy identified himself to the police as 'Gumish'. It turns out he was just a bit of a psycho.
But there is nothing more pathetic than a psycho teddy bear terrorist.
He seems to have gone all quiet on us.
Shame.
Equating 'detainees' and 'terrorists' is a common mistake so I'll let you off.
Detainees are 'suspected terrorists' and from what I hear, they are sent to these black sites because there is not enough evidence against them to hold them longer under normal rule of law procedures. The rule doesn't cooperate with the CIA's aggressive hunt for information, so they resort to methods which are (let's face it) pretty unlikely to result in any reliable evidence.
Why should any person, let alone someone who has been found guilty of NOTHING be subject to water torture, nerve gas exposure or wild dogs? Seriously, why?
That didn't answer my question.
Who gives the US the right to hold anyone (US citizens or not! Please!), ignore their rights, and employ torture methods to extract 'evidence'?
If they are the dangerous people you say, why can't the intelligent people of the States employ intelligent methods of bringing them to trial in a way that complies with international human rights obligations?
I thought we gave up torture and barbarism in favour of civilised methods of bringing criminals to justice.
first i'd like to say that the only proof we have of these "torture" sites, with the exception of gtmo which is an established us base in cuba, is the word of a reporter for the washington post. a newspaper know as much for its sensationalism as its journalism. that being said. it wouldn't surprise me if it we true. however, any site operated in the watr on terror by the US is also being used buy its allies. so in asking who gave them the right to hold these people, one could argue that they did. either through open approval or silent exceptance. as to your second point the purpose of the camps, if they in fact exist, is not to bring people to justice but to gather information. while i do not condone the use of torture, i can understand why some might feel that it is necessary in certian cases. if your suspect is perfectly willing to strap a bomb to his chest, walk into a shop and proceed to blow himself and anyone within 20 meters to atoms, logic suggests that conventional questioning methods may not be effective ways to gather information.
Steve! :)
Thanks for commenting and taking me back to the good ol' days of tok, the extended arguments, the manic grin of mr. byrom, good times...
Now, 'while i do not condone the use of torture, i can understand why some might feel that it is necessary in certain cases'. Come on, torture doesn't result in reliable evidence or information, yes we need to find ways of gathering information and tackling terrorism, but torture is just an indication of a loss of control and desperation. It won't help in the long run.
ahh... you have found the cux of the problem. "Come on, torture doesn't result in reliable evidence or information," lets look at a scenario here. if there is a terrorist who is arrested and brought in for questioning. in a normal interagation will he tell the truth when answering questions posed to him. i am thinking probably not, if he is willing to die for his cause he would not hesitate to lie. how then do you make him tell the truth?
Yes, this is the crux of the problem; we need other ways of gathering intelligence.
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